Subject: When will it happen? 2005-05-11 - By DAVID STUBBS
Back
Hello
Replying to 2nd message down on replys from David P. Angelini
How many ways can paint be mixed and do you have the time to try them?
Using this in terms of Truespace functionality.
Knowing the applications toolset whatever features it has
means knowng how to use them to convey your graphics
to the workspace . T.S is the extention of the person using
it to convey onto the screen his / her result. Hence interface.
With time and experience the artist can emerge from learning to
"know how" to use T.S. to using it.
I had always felt that Truespace is expansive with allowing
inspiration as its facilities can - and do yield some incredible
results most any of possible graphics. They did it somehow.
All things being equal Truespace can do it.
David
Joel Blackwell <joel@(protected)> wrote:
I think you over-dramatize it a bit too much there (there is thing
called a save button) but, I'm fairly sure I hear what you're saying.
Let me just make sure I do though- you're saying that other applications
are more stable than TS?
-Joel
David P. Angelini wrote:
> Joel,
>
> I agree with everything you said about people thinking more about what an
> application is capable of rather than what an artist can do with it.....but
> there is one thing where the application (regardless of its technology) can
> have a huge impact on the ability of the artist.
>
> Believe it or not, it is NOT interface. A user can overcome the clumsiest
> of interfaces...it just takes more time and training, but they can be
> overcome. I have seen some amazing works of art being produced by
> parapalegics using nothing more than a paintbrush strapped to their
> forehead
> or clinched between their teeth. In fact, understanding what they had to
> overcome to create such works significantly adds to my enjoyment (and
> amazement) of their work. So it if it is not interface nor technology,
> then
> there is only one thing left.
>
> It is stability.
>
> A computer program must be stable and work as expected. If a
> combination of
> the wrong commands executed at the wrong time produce un-predictable
> results
> ranging from corrupted data to system crashes, then would you as a artist
> try to push yourself to new goals with that application? Computer art
> takes
> almost as much time as it does talent when you think of all the steps that
> are involved. Would you trust that your time and talent with an application
> if you knew that there was even the slightest chance that there would be a
> fatal rendering error that stopped you right before you crossed the finish
> line? Imagine the frustration if you could not see the final results from
> all your efforts! All the hours of modelling, texturing and lighting
> wasted! And you can add days to that time if you are rendering an
> animation. Imagine the frustration if, in addition to not enjoying your
> work after all that time spent trying to create it, it got corrupted in
> the
> process! If this happend once to you, would you still use the application?
> How about two times? Three? Would you still use it if it happened ten
> times? I would guess that we all have some tolerance threshold with
> instability, but if any of this happened to you then it may not really
> be as
> high as you would like to think.
>
> You can forgive lack of features and old technology because there are
> always
> work-arounds...in fact, some would say that it is these work-arounds that
> make you a better artist. There is no work-around for instability....that
> you are stuck with.
>
> So it is true that the technology does not make the artist....but
> instability can certainly keep him or her from practicing their art.
>
> Dave Angelini
>
> -- ---- ------ Original message -- ---- ------
>
>> This post from an XSI user put it the best, I feel, about why he used
>> XSI.
>>
>> "The answer is simple, since you can do anything you want with most
>> todays apps, try this and that and make a choice. Choose what you feel
>> most comfortable with. Guys here just like XSI, not that it is the best
>> or something, go to other forums...they like other software and use it.
>> Nothing special."
>>
>> To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the images that have been coming out
>> of Truespace users as of late. My eye for a good rendering is no longer
>> the same as an amateur's eye, and it's been hard to give good comments
>> about the images on this list. They just don't look that great to me.
>> But, the above guy is right in what he said. The technology is so good
>> in almost every application on the market, the potential for amazing
>> images is possible for pretty much everyone. One of the best TS images
>> I've ever seen came out of TS4, and that was due to the fact the guy who
>> rendered it knew what he was doing with textures and lighting... and
>> didn't rely soley on how good his program was.
>>
>> There's been a lot of talk about using Vray is TS7. And, the reason
>> people are talking about it is because they're too busy thinking about
>> what's under the hood of an application, instead of mastering the basics
>> of composition, lighting, modeling and texturing. I think talking about
>> other apps is okay, but it shouldn't be some focus for a community. The
>> focus should be producing *better* art... not heading for the better
>> equipped toolset. If you're in a production pipeline, that may be a
>> different story, but I don't believe that's something many TS users have
>> to deal with, since TS wasn't designed for the same tasks as XSI and
>> Houdini.
>>
>> So my point- if Caligari have anything to worry about, it's that people
>> have lost the plot, and think the way to a better rendering is by having
>> more features. That's not true. For years applications have been able
>> to produce some amazing works. Sure, HDRI, caustics and GI all help,
>> but they're not essential for those that replace them with skill.
>>
>> -Joel
>>
>
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<DIV>Hello<BR><BR>Replying to 2nd message down on replys from David P. Angelini
<BR><BR>How many ways can paint be mixed and do you have the time to try them?
<BR>Using this in terms of Truespace functionality. <BR><BR>Knowing the
applications toolset whatever features it has </DIV>
<DIV>means knowng how to use them to convey your graphics<BR>to the workspace .
T.S is the extention of the person using</DIV>
<DIV>it to convey onto the screen his / her result. Hence interface.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>With time and experience the artist can emerge from learning to </DIV>
<DIV>"know how" to use T.S. to using it.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>I had always felt that Truespace is expansive with allowing </DIV>
<DIV>inspiration as its facilities can - and do yield some incredible</DIV>
<DIV>results most any of possible graphics. They did it somehow.
<BR> </DIV>
<DIV>All things being equal Truespace can do it.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR><B><I>Joel
Blackwell <joel@(protected)></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER
-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I think you over-dramatize it a bit too much there
(there is thing<BR>called a save button) but, I'm fairly sure I hear what you're
saying.<BR>Let me just make sure I do though- you're saying that other
applications<BR>are more stable than TS?<BR><BR>-Joel<BR><BR><BR>David P.
Angelini wrote:<BR>> Joel,<BR>><BR>> I agree with everything you said
about people thinking more about what an<BR>> application is capable of
rather than what an artist can do with it.....but<BR>> there is one thing
where the application (regardless of its technology) can<BR>> have a huge
impact on the ability of the artist.<BR>><BR>> Believe it or not, it is
NOT interface. A user can overcome the clumsiest<BR>> of interfaces...it
just takes more time and training, but they can be<BR>> overcome. I have
seen some amazing works of art being produced by<BR>> parapalegics using
nothing more than a paintbrush strapped to their<BR>> forehead<BR>> or
clinched between their teeth. In fact, understanding what they had to<BR>>
overcome to create such works significantly adds to my enjoyment (and<BR>>
amazement) of their work. So it if it is not interface nor technology,<BR>>
then<BR>> there is only one thing left.<BR>><BR>> It is stability.<BR>
><BR>> A computer program must be stable and work as expected. If a<BR>>
; combination of<BR>> the wrong commands executed at the wrong time produce
un-predictable<BR>> results<BR>> ranging from corrupted data to system
crashes, then would you as a artist<BR>> try to push yourself to new goals
with that application? Computer art<BR>> takes<BR>> almost as much time
as it does talent when you think of all the steps that<BR>> are involved.
Would you trust that your time and talent with an application<BR>> if you
knew that there was even the slightest chance that there
would be a<BR>> fatal rendering error that stopped you right before you
crossed the finish<BR>> line? Imagine the frustration if you could not see
the final results from<BR>> all your efforts! All the hours of modelling,
texturing and lighting<BR>> wasted! And you can add days to that time if you
are rendering an<BR>> animation. Imagine the frustration if, in addition to
not enjoying your<BR>> work after all that time spent trying to create it,
it got corrupted in<BR>> the<BR>> process! If this happend once to you,
would you still use the application?<BR>> How about two times? Three? Would
you still use it if it happened ten<BR>> times? I would guess that we all
have some tolerance threshold with<BR>> instability, but if any of this
happened to you then it may not really<BR>> be as<BR>> high as you would
like to think.<BR>><BR>> You can forgive lack of features and old
technology because there are<BR>> always<BR>> work-arounds...in
fact, some would say that it is these work-arounds that<BR>> make you a
better artist. There is no work-around for instability....that<BR>> you are
stuck with.<BR>><BR>> So it is true that the technology does not make the
artist....but<BR>> instability can certainly keep him or her from practicing
their art.<BR>><BR>> Dave Angelini<BR>><BR>> -- ---- ------
Original message -- ---- ------<BR>><BR>>> This post from an XSI user
put it the best, I feel, about why he used<BR>>> XSI.<BR>>><BR>>
> "The answer is simple, since you can do anything you want with most<BR>>
> todays apps, try this and that and make a choice. Choose what you feel<BR>
>> most comfortable with. Guys here just like XSI, not that it is the best
<BR>>> or something, go to other forums...they like other software and use
it.<BR>>> Nothing special."<BR>>><BR>>> To be honest, I'm not
a big fan of the images that have been coming
out<BR>>> of Truespace users as of late. My eye for a good rendering is
no longer<BR>>> the same as an amateur's eye, and it's been hard to give
good comments<BR>>> about the images on this list. They just don't look
that great to me.<BR>>> But, the above guy is right in what he said. The
technology is so good<BR>>> in almost every application on the market,
the potential for amazing<BR>>> images is possible for pretty much
everyone. One of the best TS images<BR>>> I've ever seen came out of TS4,
and that was due to the fact the guy who<BR>>> rendered it knew what he
was doing with textures and lighting... and<BR>>> didn't rely soley on
how good his program was.<BR>>><BR>>> There's been a lot of talk
about using Vray is TS7. And, the reason<BR>>> people are talking about
it is because they're too busy thinking about<BR>>> what's under the hood
of an application, instead of mastering the basics<BR>>>
of composition, lighting, modeling and texturing. I think talking about<BR>>
;> other apps is okay, but it shouldn't be some focus for a community. The<BR
>>> focus should be producing *better* art... not heading for the better
<BR>>> equipped toolset. If you're in a production pipeline, that may be a
<BR>>> different story, but I don't believe that's something many TS users
have<BR>>> to deal with, since TS wasn't designed for the same tasks as
XSI and<BR>>> Houdini.<BR>>><BR>>> So my point- if Caligari
have anything to worry about, it's that people<BR>>> have lost the plot,
and think the way to a better rendering is by having<BR>>> more features.
That's not true. For years applications have been able<BR>>> to produce
some amazing works. Sure, HDRI, caustics and GI all help,<BR>>> but they
're not essential for those that replace them with skill.<BR>>><BR>>>
; -Joel<BR>>><BR>><BR>>
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