Re: Some news about Viewpoint 2004-02-08 - By ewillia777
Back
They can't be all that dumb, it seems to me the idiots are the one's
actually paying them the thousands of dollars!
EW
--- In Carrara@(protected), Andrew Turner <turner410@(protected)> wrote:
> I still believe their market saturation report is fraudulent. And
flatulent.
>
> If they're doing so great let their stock speak for them. Oh, wait.
Their
> stock is already speaking for them:
>
> $1.04
>
> They've obvioulsy got a very strong grip on their business, hm?
>
> LOSERS. Actually, I'm the loser. An 80% of purchased value type of
loser.
>
> Viewpoint: Please do your investors and yourselves a big favor: sell
> yourselves to a company that isn't inept.
>
> Thanks.
>
> From: nospam <nospam@(protected)>
> Reply-To: Carrara@(protected)
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:18:03 +0100
> To: Carrara@(protected)
> Cc: "Cook, Andrew" <Andrew.Cook@(protected)>
> Subject: [Carrara] Some news about Viewpoint
>
>
> Bonjour,
>
> For those interested by web 3D, here some interesting news about
> Viewpoint.
>
> A /
> It appears from a thread on the old Viewpoint forum that the $995
yearly
> fee entry step for content developers doesn't give access to the
full
> specifications of the product (see partial copy of the thread below
my
> signature).
>
> In order to gain access to the full featured license, one has to buy
> the Business license, $25000 a year.
>
> To be more precise, the $995 developer license doesn't include
license
> for bi-driectional API (see below the thread).
> To be more concrete, the developer license does not include the
> following scenarii (as far as I understand) :
> - modify the viewpoint scene from a javascript embeded in the
enclosing
> HTML page
> - modify viewpoint content from the HTML page neither.
>
> This means that you cannot, for instance, create a 3D graph and feed
> it in real time (or by refresh the HTML/PHP/ASP/... page).
> Or it is impossible to have a 3D shape in the Viewpoint windows
> chang when the mouse pass over an HTML link.
>
> B/
> All the core documentation about Viewpoint (the Viewpoint XML
> reference guide, which is absolutly necessary for any Viewpoint
> project other than displaying a nice rotatable 2D/3D object on an
> hobbyist web page ...) has been removed from the public web site of
> Viewpoint and is now only accessible for licensed developers ($995 a
> year).
> If we needed another proof that Viewpoint Inc. is trying all
possible
> ways to cut its poetntial developers base that's another one.
>
> C/
> By the way, the viewpoint forum is also now reserved to licensed
developers.
> Wonder why ?
> Pay your license and go to the forums. You may get the answer ...
but
> it will be too late for you !
>
>
>
> --
> Cordialement / Sincerly yours,
> nospam
> Flocons de P�ques
> Infographie 2D et 3D - Cr�ation web - Services informatiques
> www.floconsdepaques.com
>
>
> -- --
> Viewpoint forum excerpt :
>
> andrea
>
> Member
>
> posted January 24, 2004 05:36 AM
> Hi all,
> I think that this point need a specific topic.
> So I open it.
>
> key limitations of the Web Developer License:
>
> HE LICENSE GRANTED HEREIN DOES NOT INCLUDE OR EXTEND TO: (...)
> Viewpoint Content that utilizes Viewpoint?s Communication API
feature, i.e.,
> Viewpoint Content that communicates beyond the Viewpoint Document
Object
> Module (DOM) or that requires network activity beyond the loading
of files
> that were present and accessible at the time of publication.
>
> .... What are the cases? Javascript dinamic communication between
mtx/mts
> object and html pages? external scripts?
> Dinamic object loading inside a single mtx?
> .... ... ...
> .... can we have some examples?
>
> Thank you again
>
>
> andrea
> Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
> Admin
>
> Administrator
>
> posted January 26, 2004 01:56 PM
> Hi Andrea,
>
> Any communication in or out of the VMP DOM. So, having an graphic
on a page
> that triggers an animation in the scene would require use of the
> Communication API.
>
> The big change here is that more of the UI will be handled within
the
> Viewpoint scene, using Flash.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
> Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
> ibob
> Member
>
>
> posted January 27, 2004 03:51 AM
> Hi Andrew
>
> You mean that your famous bi directional scripting will not work
any longer
> with a Web developer license?
>
> Wich license level is required for that? At what price?
>
> All my stuff and almost all Viewpoint interactive experience require
> javascript developpement and bi directional scripting.
>
> Do i have to go back and tell to my clients that all the stuff I ve
build
> for them wont work any more? ( even the one with a simple image or
link
> trigger). Do i have to buy a $$$$$ license to keep it working?
>
> It seems that your marvellous Developper license is hidding a lot
of things.
>
> quote: Andrew, 11/24/2003
> Therefore, we have decided to offer a "Developer License"
starting in
> January for an annual cost of only $995. This license will allow
you to
> create and publish as much content as you like with no additional
licensing
> fees when your client deploys the content.
>
>
>
> Without DOM? Where is it written? I m blind? As much content as i
like
> without any limitation exept DOM
>
> quote:Andrew, 11/24/2003:
> List Price $995.00
> Discounted Price $495.00
> Savings $500.00
>
> As you can see, Viewpoint has a new mantra: Easy, Easy, Easy.
Easy to
> use, Easy to understand, Easy to do business with. We encourage you
to take
> advantage of our new offerings with the understanding that these
programs
> are merely the first step to rewarding our loyal partners and
growing our
> business.
>
>
>
> Esay, Easy and unclear as allways. Was $500 discount the price of a
bad
> surprise? I thank my kindom to make me wait for a more accurate
proposal
> before buying your license. What a reward!
> Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> ibob
> Member
>
>
> posted January 27, 2004 04:09 AM
> I reply (partially) to my self.
>
> I just read again a doc that i ve reveived:
>
> quote: With prices starting at $25,000 annually for the ?Business
> License,? users can immediately begin assembling and delivering
cutting-edge
> video and innovative rich media. The new pricing program eliminates
all
> content license fees and content expirations that were part of the
previous
> program; now, content created under the license period never
expires.
>
>
>
> Prices starting at 25,000 $... let me voiceless
> Am I going to sell my house to get the license?
> Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> andrea
>
> Member
>
> posted January 27, 2004 05:03 AM
> yes, 25.000$ this is the point.
> All previous projects using DOM will NOT work with the 995$ license.
>
> I think that the DOM management and the page integration are the
real
> keypoints of viewpoint's technology.
>
> So the 995$ license is completely useless for projects that are
more than a
> simple animated graphics.
>
> If the goal of the new license platform is to push the diffusion
and to grow
> the penetration of viewpoint technology, i think this is the wrong
way.
>
> But sure, you can rapidly make more money....
>
> BUT sure2 I can't sell 25000$ of viewpoint technology to our
clients in one
> year...
>
> mmm I think we are too *small* for you
>
> best regards
>
> andrea
> Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
> ibob
> Member
>
>
> posted January 27, 2004 06:17 AM
> Well, while we discuss, the value of the Viewpoint share (Nasdaq
VWPT) jump
> from $0.85 to 1.15. and that is what actually really matter.
> If i had spend the amount of the license in VWPT share instead of
buying an
> useless thing, I would have earn 352 $ while spleeping.
>
> Come on Andrea, lets keep on talking and the share will rise more
and more
> Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> barnaby
>
>
> posted January 27, 2004 06:49 AM
> Hi Ibob,
>
> just got back from a business trip and read your posts.
>
> what the hell is going on...
>
> am I right in thinking that everything I have been working on for
the last 2
> years is completely screwed up?
>
> perhaps this explains why GetProperty no longer seems to do
anything.
>
> Admin
>
> Administrator
>
> posted January 27, 2004 02:39 PM
> Hi All,
>
> The GetProperty issue cannot have anything to do with the
Communication API
> feature license.
>
> You have all raised good questions regarding the Commuication API
and the
> Business License. I will try to address them as well as I can.
>
> 1. The Business License would be purchased by your customers, not
the
> developer.
>
> 2. With the Release of VMP 3.0.13 - 15 and 3.2.1 (Mac) a very full
set of
> Flash 5 ActionScripting is supported. This allows the creation and
use of
> sophisticated UI's within the Viewpoint scene. Which, of course, is
covered
> by the Web Developer License.
>
> 3. Existing Customers. These folks will need to either have you
move the UI
> into the scene, or purchase the appropriate license.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
> Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
> hebdemnobad
>
> Member
>
> posted January 27, 2004 03:30 PM
> will it cost $25000 to do any(some, or all) of the following?
> 1. post a vmp scene on the net that allows the vmp to trigger a
flash movie
> external to to the vmp? (I use this alot to create sound
environments with
> the vmp)
> 2. as a developer, will it cost $25,000 to do 1, above?
> 3. will the $25000 license apply to locally hosted files? (ie files
that are
> viewed on the computer that holds the files)
>
> thanks in advance
> Posts: 105 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> Patrolkiwi
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 06:25 AM
> Hi hebdemnobad,
>
> Yes, item one would require the use of the Communication API. You
can create
> the content, but just not publish (i.e. prevent watermarking).
>
> The watermarking will continue to work as it does now, which is to
say that
> local files do not display the watermark.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> andrea
>
> Member
>
> posted January 28, 2004 06:57 AM
>
> quote:Originally posted by Admin:
> 1. The Business License would be purchased by your customers,
not the
> developer.
>
> WOW ... $25000 EACH(!!!!)
> Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
> Patrolkiwi
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 07:18 AM
> Hi Andrea,
>
> The business license allows publishing of an unlimited amount of
content
> also. The big difference is the additional features.
>
> The Web Developer License offers nearly the same benefits; however
the UI
> needs to remain in the scene. Fortunately this can be created using
Flash.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> ScottHawthorne
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 08:18 AM
> I wonder if Viewpoint is looking to shed itself the external
developers...to
> only do things in-house. A close look at their new pricing model
vs. what
> can <i>really</i> be accomplished with the developers license
indicates a
> willingness to cut us off.
> Having invested much time and money...I am feeling a little ripped
off?
>
> Patrolkiwi
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 09:22 AM
> Hi Scott,
>
> The opposite is actually what we are trying to achieve. Next week
an updated
> Developer Central will launch, and with it the Developer Exchange.
The
> Developer Exchange is specifically in place to facilitate clients
to locate
> and use developers outside of Viewpoint.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> barnaby
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 12:11 PM
> .... hmm swings and roundabouts these new developments
>
> I have spent two years trying to build a business around 3d web
content
> provision. Not one of the companies that I deal with could ever
afford a
> $25,000 license. So I will have to ensure that the projects I'm
working on
> will work under the new license terms.
>
> This means that having developed a fairly convincing set of tools
around
> html/javascript/vet it looks like I'm going to need to invest time
in
> porting the ideas into vet-supported actionscript.
>
> .... always assuming that this will continue to be supported and
that it is
> actually possible to do the same things by different means ...
>
> which it almost certainly isn't
>
> ps I didn't mean to imply that my [personal] problems with
GetProperty are
> really anything to do with this.
>
> Barnaby
>
> ibob
> Member
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 12:56 PM
> Hi Barnaby,
>
> GetProperty still works just go to the xml.viewpoint.com website
and chek
> the example section, everything is ok.
>
> I also have to port everything into actionscript ... and learn
flash and
> actionscript at the same time
> Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> mr.eddie
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 02:59 PM
> Sorry Andrew,
> you're really a kind and helpful person.
>
> But it seems to me Viewpoint is just following the wrong way.
> I would understand if you ask to pay more for videostraming
abilities...and
> the bandwidth consuption it causes on your servers.
> BUT
> Making it harder to developers to produce and spread viewpoint
contents on
> the web won't do any good. Ok maybe Nasdaq rules nowadays...but how
many
> dot.companies have disappeared in one day?
>
> The learning curve of theories and methods, the practices, the
already set
> up code, in most cases will cause the developer to start from point
zero. Or
> maybe 1.
> The investment in form of money/time you ask...again...is very
high. And the
> license program is elite-only.
> Now maybe you think you can gain more big licensee...like Opel or
Bmw.
> But I'm starting to wonder how many medium or small developers will
decide
> to *migrate* to other similar technologies which are more
affordable...even
> if not as refined and powerfull as yours.
>
> Ok?
> Obviously this is just my "point of view".
>
> Take care.
> Ed
>
> Patrolkiwi
>
>
> posted January 28, 2004 06:15 PM
> Hi Ed, et al.,
>
> I certainly appreciate and understand your feedback.
>
> It is certainly true that moving the UI into the scene requires
thinking
> through a different approach to authoring the content. And I
understand that
> simple items like updating text on the page based on user
interaction in the
> scene now require the Business License.
>
> Your feedback is being brought to the attention of the appropriate
folks.
>
> Please keep in mind that clients can opt to purchase a 90 day
Business
> license (one time only) that would allow the deployment of content
for a
> significantly reduced cost (approx. $6,250). Any content published
during
> that period would be published in perpetuality. This certainly
provides a
> nice way for businesses to 'dip their toe in the water'.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> best anon
>
>
> posted January 29, 2004 12:27 PM
> If this is what the new adminstration believes is the proper tact,
then Jay
> might not last as the board will be not pleased. NASDAQ may jump at
finally
> hearing of a salient plan...but plan's weakness is
> a) it is ahead of its time
> b) so therefore, it creates a larger barrier to entry for the
developer on
> Viewpoint's long and arduous path toward ubiqity in its media
player (or
> lack thereof, it continues to be an awfull long race, my goodness
ten
> years?)
>
> Did anyone look in the gallery today? A brilliant example of 3D on
the web
> is there (not mine and none of it uses Vwpt.
>
> Only $6,250US is a remarkably hard amount to present to a client
when they
> are still trying to adopt the overall idea...
> Granted, studies do show that rich media works, Compaq's example
showed
> this..but has this technology propagated to ubiquity while a
minimum of
> expertise is needed to deploy?
> Hardly, quite the opposite is true and it is only going to get more
complex.
> You do not see all of HP/Compaq's products displayed in this
fashion. It was
> only an experiment which went well.
>
> If the adoptance of Viewpoint technology (which is not measured by
installed
> media players) and stable of developers of Viewpoint technology is
large
> enough (don't forget to subtract departing devotees due to a
crushing
> pricing policy, not overly complex code) for Viewpoint to head off
on this
> remarkable new tact, then buy their stock now. Otherwise, it's a
short call.
>
> Question: out of the 3 billion websites listed at google.com, what
> percentage of them display Viewpoint technology?
> Answer: less than 1%?
>
> Jay, it's not getting easier. How about a new mantra?
>
> DavidR
>
> Member
>
> posted January 29, 2004 12:52 PM
> I too think that this whole thing is an opportunity waiting to
happen. It
> would be great if Viewpoint would adjust the licensing policy to
allow the
> technology to be embraced, and paid for, by what it does. Feature
bits in
> the broadcastkey have worked in the past, why not now?
> Developers should be made able to develop with unencumbered rights
to
> display the technology and its possibilities. When a
client/company/target
> market likes what they see and wants to employ the technology to
help
> showcase their products, then and only then, is Viewpoint
positioned to
> profit. Profit in partnership with the developer seems to be what
is hoped
> for. I am hoping we can get there too.
> DavidR
>
>
>
>
> hebdemnobad
>
> Member
>
> posted January 29, 2004 01:18 PM
> to put in another couple of cents:
>
> i have applied for a $20-30k grant to implement vet for a non-
profit arts
> center in nyc, usa. the project would necessitate use of the
communications
> license api. there is no way that the grant will be approved if it
would
> cost 25k per year merely to create a demo of the content, with $0
left for
> payment of the developers (myself included)
>
> if this 25k business license plan is vet's new and continuing
policy, so be
> it. i will migrate to another online 3d format, albeit with sadness
and
> frustration, as i have learned and grown comfortable with the vet
framework.
>
> i request that vet reconsider its new licensing plan
>
> hebdemnobad/nyc, ny, usa
> Posts: 105 | Registered: January 24, 2003
> Admin
>
> Administrator
>
> posted January 29, 2004 03:34 PM
> Hi All,
>
> I certainly appreciate the feedback and suggestions.
>
> 1. The Non-Profit Arts Centre project. Please email me and include
a full
> description of the project etc. The project will be evaluated on a
one-off
> basis at this time.
>
> 2. Pricing. There is no doubt that $6,250 is not chump change :-)
The
> effectiveness of the technology is there and is real. Any content
published
> during the 90 day license will live forever - it will not 'expire'.
>
> The Web Developer License does offer the ability to create content
at a very
> minimal cost. I do understand that it does require re-thinking the
approach
> to UI creation and scene structure.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
> Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
> gregorious
>
> Junior Member
>
> posted January 30, 2004 08:55 PM
> I am having a problem with the new VWPT licensing program too. I
have take
> on the task of learning 3D and learning to develope VWPT product,
but the
> new licensing program cuts deep, and cuts the legs out from its
developer
> base.
>
> For those who don't know, the VWPT stock is on the NASDAQ, and the
central
> discussion on that message board at this time is the prospect of
the stock
> being removed from the NASDAQ (delisting) because the stock price
has
> slipped under one dollar and stayed there for some time. Reportedly
NASDAQ
> has issued a DELISTING warning to VWPT on DEC 12, 2003, and has 6
months to
> get the stock up over one dollar for ten consecutive days.
>
>
> These links are my comments on the yahoo VWPT stock message board
regarding
> the licensing program.
>
>
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&boardF88157&ti
d=mcre
> &sidF88157&mid�526
>
>
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&boardF88157&ti
d=mcre
> &sidF88157&mid�525
> Posts: 2 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: January 30, 2004
> Admin
>
> Administrator
>
> posted February 02, 2004 09:51 AM
> Hi Gregorious,
>
> Thanks for the posting and links. The Developer Exchange will be
available
> by Wednesday. Later in the year (Target = Q3) a full blown tool
will be
> available to ease the assembly of content.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
> Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
> gregorious
>
> Junior Member
>
> posted February 02, 2004 12:49 PM
> So where can I get and idea of what the new licensing structure
looks like?
> I saw one metric that said something about different tiers last
week, but
> now that one seems to be gone.
>
> I have heard numbers $25,000 dollars kicked around this message
board and
> that sort of puts a screeching squelch on my viewpoint plans.
>
> I received an email in November saying if I sign up to the
Developer listing
> I get a substantial discount ($500) off on a licensing fee and
unlimited
> content deployment. I signed up, but the month of December had
other plans
> for my wallet.
>
> Is that offer still good? It sounds too good to be true. What are
the
> limitations?
>
> Am I the only ignorant fool out here that has scrathed his head
bald over
> trying to understand this latest licensing development? (retorical
question)
>
> Those water marks are annoying:
> http://www.forthosewhowait.com/multimedia-3 (See http://dia-3.ora-code.com)D-showcase.htm
> Posts: 2 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: January 30, 2004
> Admin
>
> Administrator
>
> posted February 02, 2004 01:27 PM
> Hi Gregorious,
>
> The promotional offer ($500 off) has expired, so I am unable to
offer you
> that.
>
> You can see a nice table which outlines the various licensing
levels at:
>
> http://www.viewpoint.com/pub/technology-3 (See http://ogy-3.ora-code.com)a.html
>
> You can see the terms of the Web Developer License on Developer
Central
> (http://developer.viewpoint.com).
>
> The $25K relates to the Business License (see table at link above).
> Additionally, first-time clients can choose to get started with a
one-time
> 90-day "option" period that allows them to pay for only the first
ninety
> days of the annual license as they adopt the technology.
>
> Any content published during that 90 day period remains published
forever.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
> Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
> barnaby
>
>
> posted February 03, 2004 04:15 AM
> I guess this thread is destined to run and run...
>
> since my last posting I've been looking around desperately to see
if it
> would be possible to migrate the research I have been doing into a
viable
> proposition that my client base would buy into. And frankly it
would seem
> that the answer is NO.
>
> what am I trying to do? well dynamically generate content on the
fly using a
> MySql/Php database. I've done 90% of the leg work and to make it
work means
> using the MTSMarkup javascript command. Prior to doing the MySql
version I
> have a filemaker generated semi-dynamic prototype that relies on
LoadMTX. I
> can't see anything in the flash/actionscript side of things that
would allow
> me to do this. Which currently appears to mean that for each
application of
> my wonderful system, I'd need to have my client's sign up to a
Business
> license.
>
> Which, when my client's budgets are never in excess of $30,000 all-
in, means
> that its a complete no-go.
>
> so now I'm immersed in trying to make it work in S**ckw**e. With
all the
> headaches that that implies. The advantages of Viewpoint over other
3d
> related formats - flexibility/componentisation/render quality never
survive
> the $25,000 dollar question.
>
> Who suffers in this? Well we do as content developers who 'saw' the
> strengths of the MTS/VET system at the beginning, who weathered a
shitty two
> years of economic freeze, patiently waited for platform parity, dug
our way
> through the quirks of an emerging technology and struggled to sell
an opaque
> licensing system to clients who were already taking a big gamble by
stepping
> out of the cosy world of 'flash' and print.
>
> And at the end of the day I think Viewpoint will suffer. Sure the
big
> business clients with multimillion dollar advertising and marketing
budgets
> might pay. But I am convinced that this business model will see VET
remain a
> niche player. The marketing spiel makes it sound like the VET
player is
> already everywhere when the reality is that I have yet to go to a
sales
> meeting where my client already has the player.
>
> What is the solution? If only I was an economist, not a designer,
I'd love
> to have a solution that sees Viewpoint earning from its wonderful
technology
> and me earning from my wonderful work. The ratio at the moment is 25
> javascript disabled developers to 1 cash rich multinational. How
many small
> developers would Viewpoint need to meet its sales targets. Should
the
> developer license cost more but actually be fully featured.
>
> I keep looking back at S**ckw**e and seeing that $1800 buys you a
product
> that covers all bases, that has a very large installed user base, a
well
> established programming system, multimedia capabilities etc. Sure
the 3d
> side sucks somewhat. Oh and it costs clients nothing. I'd pay $1800
to just
> be able to get on and use VET.
>
> Sorry to be such a grumbler, Andrew, when you are putting such a
cheery face
> on things but like many VET developers I feel locked out of my own
business
> by all this.
>
> Barnaby
>
> Wouldbe Developer!
>
>
>
> (.....)
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> Carrara-unsubscribe@(protected)
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-- ---- ---- ---- ------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -- ---- ---- ---- ---~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cidU11
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/_iFolB/TM
-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ------~->
To unsubscribe send a message to
Carrara-unsubscribe@(protected)
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Carrara/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Carrara-unsubscribe@(protected)
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
