Some news about Viewpoint 2004-02-08 - By nospam
Back
Bonjour,
For those interested by web 3D, here some interesting news about
Viewpoint.
A /
It appears from a thread on the old Viewpoint forum that the $995 yearly
fee entry step for content developers doesn't give access to the full
specifications of the product (see partial copy of the thread below my
signature).
In order to gain access to the full featured license, one has to buy
the Business license, $25000 a year.
To be more precise, the $995 developer license doesn't include license
for bi-driectional API (see below the thread).
To be more concrete, the developer license does not include the
following scenarii (as far as I understand) :
- modify the viewpoint scene from a javascript embeded in the enclosing
HTML page
- modify viewpoint content from the HTML page neither.
This means that you cannot, for instance, create a 3D graph and feed
it in real time (or by refresh the HTML/PHP/ASP/... page).
Or it is impossible to have a 3D shape in the Viewpoint windows
chang when the mouse pass over an HTML link.
B/
All the core documentation about Viewpoint (the Viewpoint XML
reference guide, which is absolutly necessary for any Viewpoint
project other than displaying a nice rotatable 2D/3D object on an
hobbyist web page ...) has been removed from the public web site of
Viewpoint and is now only accessible for licensed developers ($995 a
year).
If we needed another proof that Viewpoint Inc. is trying all possible
ways to cut its poetntial developers base that's another one.
C/
By the way, the viewpoint forum is also now reserved to licensed developers.
Wonder why ?
Pay your license and go to the forums. You may get the answer ... but
it will be too late for you !
--
Cordialement / Sincerly yours,
nospam
Flocons de P�ques
Infographie 2D et 3D - Cr�ation web - Services informatiques
www.floconsdepaques.com
-- --
Viewpoint forum excerpt :
andrea
Member
posted January 24, 2004 05:36 AM
Hi all,
I think that this point need a specific topic.
So I open it.
key limitations of the Web Developer License:
HE LICENSE GRANTED HEREIN DOES NOT INCLUDE OR EXTEND TO: (...)
Viewpoint Content that utilizes Viewpoint�s Communication API feature, i.e.,
Viewpoint Content that communicates beyond the Viewpoint Document Object Module
(DOM) or that requires network activity beyond the loading of files that were
present and accessible at the time of publication.
... What are the cases? Javascript dinamic communication between mtx/mts object
and html pages? external scripts?
Dinamic object loading inside a single mtx?
... ... ...
... can we have some examples?
Thank you again
andrea
Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
Admin
Administrator
posted January 26, 2004 01:56 PM
Hi Andrea,
Any communication in or out of the VMP DOM. So, having an graphic on a page
that triggers an animation in the scene would require use of the Communication
API.
The big change here is that more of the UI will be handled within the Viewpoint
scene, using Flash.
Cheers, Andrew
Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
ibob
Member
posted January 27, 2004 03:51 AM
Hi Andrew
You mean that your famous bi directional scripting will not work any longer
with a Web developer license?
Wich license level is required for that? At what price?
All my stuff and almost all Viewpoint interactive experience require javascript
developpement and bi directional scripting.
Do i have to go back and tell to my clients that all the stuff I ve build for
them wont work any more? ( even the one with a simple image or link trigger).
Do i have to buy a $$$$$ license to keep it working?
It seems that your marvellous Developper license is hidding a lot of things.
quote: Andrew, 11/24/2003
Therefore, we have decided to offer a "Developer License" starting in
January for an annual cost of only $995. This license will allow you to create
and publish as much content as you like with no additional licensing fees when
your client deploys the content.
Without DOM? Where is it written? I m blind? As much content as i like without
any limitation exept DOM
quote:Andrew, 11/24/2003:
List Price $995.00
Discounted Price $495.00
Savings $500.00
As you can see, Viewpoint has a new mantra: Easy, Easy, Easy. Easy to use,
Easy to understand, Easy to do business with. We encourage you to take
advantage of our new offerings with the understanding that these programs are
merely the first step to rewarding our loyal partners and growing our business.
Esay, Easy and unclear as allways. Was $500 discount the price of a bad
surprise? I thank my kindom to make me wait for a more accurate proposal before
buying your license. What a reward!
Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
ibob
Member
posted January 27, 2004 04:09 AM
I reply (partially) to my self.
I just read again a doc that i ve reveived:
quote: With prices starting at $25,000 annually for the �Business License,?
users can immediately begin assembling and delivering cutting-edge video and
innovative rich media. The new pricing program eliminates all content license
fees and content expirations that were part of the previous program; now,
content created under the license period never expires.
Prices starting at 25,000 $... let me voiceless
Am I going to sell my house to get the license?
Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
andrea
Member
posted January 27, 2004 05:03 AM
yes, 25.000$ this is the point.
All previous projects using DOM will NOT work with the 995$ license.
I think that the DOM management and the page integration are the real keypoints
of viewpoint's technology.
So the 995$ license is completely useless for projects that are more than a
simple animated graphics.
If the goal of the new license platform is to push the diffusion and to grow
the penetration of viewpoint technology, i think this is the wrong way.
But sure, you can rapidly make more money....
BUT sure2 I can't sell 25000$ of viewpoint technology to our clients in one
year...
mmm I think we are too *small* for you
best regards
andrea
Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
ibob
Member
posted January 27, 2004 06:17 AM
Well, while we discuss, the value of the Viewpoint share (Nasdaq VWPT) jump
from $0.85 to 1.15. and that is what actually really matter.
If i had spend the amount of the license in VWPT share instead of buying an
useless thing, I would have earn 352 $ while spleeping.
Come on Andrea, lets keep on talking and the share will rise more and more
Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
barnaby
posted January 27, 2004 06:49 AM
Hi Ibob,
just got back from a business trip and read your posts.
what the hell is going on...
am I right in thinking that everything I have been working on for the last 2
years is completely screwed up?
perhaps this explains why GetProperty no longer seems to do anything.
Admin
Administrator
posted January 27, 2004 02:39 PM
Hi All,
The GetProperty issue cannot have anything to do with the Communication API
feature license.
You have all raised good questions regarding the Commuication API and the
Business License. I will try to address them as well as I can.
1. The Business License would be purchased by your customers, not the developer.
2. With the Release of VMP 3.0.13 - 15 and 3.2.1 (Mac) a very full set of Flash
5 ActionScripting is supported. This allows the creation and use of
sophisticated UI's within the Viewpoint scene. Which, of course, is covered by
the Web Developer License.
3. Existing Customers. These folks will need to either have you move the UI
into the scene, or purchase the appropriate license.
Cheers, Andrew
Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
hebdemnobad
Member
posted January 27, 2004 03:30 PM
will it cost $25000 to do any(some, or all) of the following?
1. post a vmp scene on the net that allows the vmp to trigger a flash movie
external to to the vmp? (I use this alot to create sound environments with the
vmp)
2. as a developer, will it cost $25,000 to do 1, above?
3. will the $25000 license apply to locally hosted files? (ie files that are
viewed on the computer that holds the files)
thanks in advance
Posts: 105 | Registered: January 24, 2003
Patrolkiwi
posted January 28, 2004 06:25 AM
Hi hebdemnobad,
Yes, item one would require the use of the Communication API. You can create
the content, but just not publish (i.e. prevent watermarking).
The watermarking will continue to work as it does now, which is to say that
local files do not display the watermark.
Cheers, Andrew
andrea
Member
posted January 28, 2004 06:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by Admin:
1. The Business License would be purchased by your customers, not the
developer.
WOW ... $25000 EACH(!!!!)
Posts: 8 | Registered: January 22, 2004
Patrolkiwi
posted January 28, 2004 07:18 AM
Hi Andrea,
The business license allows publishing of an unlimited amount of content also.
The big difference is the additional features.
The Web Developer License offers nearly the same benefits; however the UI needs
to remain in the scene. Fortunately this can be created using Flash.
Cheers, Andrew
ScottHawthorne
posted January 28, 2004 08:18 AM
I wonder if Viewpoint is looking to shed itself the external developers...to
only do things in-house. A close look at their new pricing model vs. what can
<i>really</i> be accomplished with the developers license indicates a
willingness to cut us off.
Having invested much time and money...I am feeling a little ripped off?
Patrolkiwi
posted January 28, 2004 09:22 AM
Hi Scott,
The opposite is actually what we are trying to achieve. Next week an updated
Developer Central will launch, and with it the Developer Exchange. The
Developer Exchange is specifically in place to facilitate clients to locate and
use developers outside of Viewpoint.
Cheers, Andrew
barnaby
posted January 28, 2004 12:11 PM
... hmm swings and roundabouts these new developments
I have spent two years trying to build a business around 3d web content
provision. Not one of the companies that I deal with could ever afford a $25
,000 license. So I will have to ensure that the projects I'm working on will
work under the new license terms.
This means that having developed a fairly convincing set of tools around html
/javascript/vet it looks like I'm going to need to invest time in porting the
ideas into vet-supported actionscript.
... always assuming that this will continue to be supported and that it is
actually possible to do the same things by different means ...
which it almost certainly isn't
ps I didn't mean to imply that my [personal] problems with GetProperty are
really anything to do with this.
Barnaby
ibob
Member
posted January 28, 2004 12:56 PM
Hi Barnaby,
GetProperty still works just go to the xml.viewpoint.com website and chek the
example section, everything is ok.
I also have to port everything into actionscript ... and learn flash and
actionscript at the same time
Posts: 150 | Registered: January 24, 2003
mr.eddie
posted January 28, 2004 02:59 PM
Sorry Andrew,
you're really a kind and helpful person.
But it seems to me Viewpoint is just following the wrong way.
I would understand if you ask to pay more for videostraming abilities...and the
bandwidth consuption it causes on your servers.
BUT
Making it harder to developers to produce and spread viewpoint contents on the
web won't do any good. Ok maybe Nasdaq rules nowadays...but how many dot
.companies have disappeared in one day?
The learning curve of theories and methods, the practices, the already set up
code, in most cases will cause the developer to start from point zero. Or maybe
1.
The investment in form of money/time you ask...again...is very high. And the
license program is elite-only.
Now maybe you think you can gain more big licensee...like Opel or Bmw.
But I'm starting to wonder how many medium or small developers will decide to
*migrate* to other similar technologies which are more affordable...even if not
as refined and powerfull as yours.
Ok?
Obviously this is just my "point of view".
Take care.
Ed
Patrolkiwi
posted January 28, 2004 06:15 PM
Hi Ed, et al.,
I certainly appreciate and understand your feedback.
It is certainly true that moving the UI into the scene requires thinking
through a different approach to authoring the content. And I understand that
simple items like updating text on the page based on user interaction in the
scene now require the Business License.
Your feedback is being brought to the attention of the appropriate folks.
Please keep in mind that clients can opt to purchase a 90 day Business license
(one time only) that would allow the deployment of content for a significantly
reduced cost (approx. $6,250). Any content published during that period would
be published in perpetuality. This certainly provides a nice way for businesses
to 'dip their toe in the water'.
Cheers, Andrew
best anon
posted January 29, 2004 12:27 PM
If this is what the new adminstration believes is the proper tact, then Jay
might not last as the board will be not pleased. NASDAQ may jump at finally
hearing of a salient plan...but plan's weakness is
a) it is ahead of its time
b) so therefore, it creates a larger barrier to entry for the developer on
Viewpoint's long and arduous path toward ubiqity in its media player (or lack
thereof, it continues to be an awfull long race, my goodness ten years?)
Did anyone look in the gallery today? A brilliant example of 3D on the web is
there (not mine and none of it uses Vwpt.
Only $6,250US is a remarkably hard amount to present to a client when they are
still trying to adopt the overall idea...
Granted, studies do show that rich media works, Compaq's example showed this.
.but has this technology propagated to ubiquity while a minimum of expertise is
needed to deploy?
Hardly, quite the opposite is true and it is only going to get more complex.
You do not see all of HP/Compaq's products displayed in this fashion. It was
only an experiment which went well.
If the adoptance of Viewpoint technology (which is not measured by installed
media players) and stable of developers of Viewpoint technology is large enough
(don't forget to subtract departing devotees due to a crushing pricing policy,
not overly complex code) for Viewpoint to head off on this remarkable new tact,
then buy their stock now. Otherwise, it's a short call.
Question: out of the 3 billion websites listed at google.com, what percentage
of them display Viewpoint technology?
Answer: less than 1%?
Jay, it's not getting easier. How about a new mantra?
DavidR
Member
posted January 29, 2004 12:52 PM
I too think that this whole thing is an opportunity waiting to happen. It would
be great if Viewpoint would adjust the licensing policy to allow the technology
to be embraced, and paid for, by what it does. Feature bits in the broadcastkey
have worked in the past, why not now?
Developers should be made able to develop with unencumbered rights to display
the technology and its possibilities. When a client/company/target market likes
what they see and wants to employ the technology to help showcase their
products, then and only then, is Viewpoint positioned to profit. Profit in
partnership with the developer seems to be what is hoped for. I am hoping we
can get there too.
DavidR
hebdemnobad
Member
posted January 29, 2004 01:18 PM
to put in another couple of cents:
i have applied for a $20-30k grant to implement vet for a non-profit arts
center in nyc, usa. the project would necessitate use of the communications
license api. there is no way that the grant will be approved if it would cost
25k per year merely to create a demo of the content, with $0 left for payment
of the developers (myself included)
if this 25k business license plan is vet's new and continuing policy, so be it.
i will migrate to another online 3d format, albeit with sadness and frustration
, as i have learned and grown comfortable with the vet framework.
i request that vet reconsider its new licensing plan
hebdemnobad/nyc, ny, usa
Posts: 105 | Registered: January 24, 2003
Admin
Administrator
posted January 29, 2004 03:34 PM
Hi All,
I certainly appreciate the feedback and suggestions.
1. The Non-Profit Arts Centre project. Please email me and include a full
description of the project etc. The project will be evaluated on a one-off
basis at this time.
2. Pricing. There is no doubt that $6,250 is not chump change :-) The
effectiveness of the technology is there and is real. Any content published
during the 90 day license will live forever - it will not 'expire'.
The Web Developer License does offer the ability to create content at a very
minimal cost. I do understand that it does require re-thinking the approach to
UI creation and scene structure.
Cheers, Andrew
Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
gregorious
Junior Member
posted January 30, 2004 08:55 PM
I am having a problem with the new VWPT licensing program too. I have take on
the task of learning 3D and learning to develope VWPT product, but the new
licensing program cuts deep, and cuts the legs out from its developer base.
For those who don't know, the VWPT stock is on the NASDAQ, and the central
discussion on that message board at this time is the prospect of the stock
being removed from the NASDAQ (delisting) because the stock price has slipped
under one dollar and stayed there for some time. Reportedly NASDAQ has issued a
DELISTING warning to VWPT on DEC 12, 2003, and has 6 months to get the stock up
over one dollar for ten consecutive days.
These links are my comments on the yahoo VWPT stock message board regarding the
licensing program.
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4688157&tid=mcre
&sid=4688157&mid=83526
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4688157&tid=mcre
&sid=4688157&mid=83525
Posts: 2 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: January 30, 2004
Admin
Administrator
posted February 02, 2004 09:51 AM
Hi Gregorious,
Thanks for the posting and links. The Developer Exchange will be available by
Wednesday. Later in the year (Target = Q3) a full blown tool will be available
to ease the assembly of content.
Cheers, Andrew
Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
gregorious
Junior Member
posted February 02, 2004 12:49 PM
So where can I get and idea of what the new licensing structure looks like? I
saw one metric that said something about different tiers last week, but now
that one seems to be gone.
I have heard numbers $25,000 dollars kicked around this message board and that
sort of puts a screeching squelch on my viewpoint plans.
I received an email in November saying if I sign up to the Developer listing I
get a substantial discount ($500) off on a licensing fee and unlimited content
deployment. I signed up, but the month of December had other plans for my
wallet.
Is that offer still good? It sounds too good to be true. What are the
limitations?
Am I the only ignorant fool out here that has scrathed his head bald over
trying to understand this latest licensing development? (retorical question)
Those water marks are annoying:
http://www.forthosewhowait.com/multimedia-3 (See http://dia-3.ora-code.com)D-showcase.htm
Posts: 2 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: January 30, 2004
Admin
Administrator
posted February 02, 2004 01:27 PM
Hi Gregorious,
The promotional offer ($500 off) has expired, so I am unable to offer you that.
You can see a nice table which outlines the various licensing levels at:
http://www.viewpoint.com/pub/technology-3 (See http://ogy-3.ora-code.com)a.html
You can see the terms of the Web Developer License on Developer Central (http:/
/developer.viewpoint.com).
The $25K relates to the Business License (see table at link above).
Additionally, first-time clients can choose to get started with a one-time 90
-day "option" period that allows them to pay for only the first ninety days of
the annual license as they adopt the technology.
Any content published during that 90 day period remains published forever.
Cheers, Andrew
Posts: 139 | Registered: January 08, 2003
barnaby
posted February 03, 2004 04:15 AM
I guess this thread is destined to run and run...
since my last posting I've been looking around desperately to see if it would
be possible to migrate the research I have been doing into a viable proposition
that my client base would buy into. And frankly it would seem that the answer
is NO.
what am I trying to do? well dynamically generate content on the fly using a
MySql/Php database. I've done 90% of the leg work and to make it work means
using the MTSMarkup javascript command. Prior to doing the MySql version I have
a filemaker generated semi-dynamic prototype that relies on LoadMTX. I can't
see anything in the flash/actionscript side of things that would allow me to do
this. Which currently appears to mean that for each application of my wonderful
system, I'd need to have my client's sign up to a Business license.
Which, when my client's budgets are never in excess of $30,000 all-in, means
that its a complete no-go.
so now I'm immersed in trying to make it work in S**ckw**e. With all the
headaches that that implies. The advantages of Viewpoint over other 3d related
formats - flexibility/componentisation/render quality never survive the $25,000
dollar question.
Who suffers in this? Well we do as content developers who 'saw' the strengths
of the MTS/VET system at the beginning, who weathered a shitty two years of
economic freeze, patiently waited for platform parity, dug our way through the
quirks of an emerging technology and struggled to sell an opaque licensing
system to clients who were already taking a big gamble by stepping out of the
cosy world of 'flash' and print.
And at the end of the day I think Viewpoint will suffer. Sure the big business
clients with multimillion dollar advertising and marketing budgets might pay.
But I am convinced that this business model will see VET remain a niche player.
The marketing spiel makes it sound like the VET player is already everywhere
when the reality is that I have yet to go to a sales meeting where my client
already has the player.
What is the solution? If only I was an economist, not a designer, I'd love to
have a solution that sees Viewpoint earning from its wonderful technology and
me earning from my wonderful work. The ratio at the moment is 25 javascript
disabled developers to 1 cash rich multinational. How many small developers
would Viewpoint need to meet its sales targets. Should the developer license
cost more but actually be fully featured.
I keep looking back at S**ckw**e and seeing that $1800 buys you a product that
covers all bases, that has a very large installed user base, a well established
programming system, multimedia capabilities etc. Sure the 3d side sucks
somewhat. Oh and it costs clients nothing. I'd pay $1800 to just be able to get
on and use VET.
Sorry to be such a grumbler, Andrew, when you are putting such a cheery face on
things but like many VET developers I feel locked out of my own business by all
this.
Barnaby
Wouldbe Developer!
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