Getting frustrated with bugs... 2005-06-03 - By Joel Blackwell
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Thanks Sandy, I'll look into that. It'll be interesting to see if I can
find a balance between what I need for games, and what I need for XSI.
Brent, that leads me to another question- how do submit bugs (or at
least, what I think are bugs) to Softimage? Every time I try and find a
way on the Softimage website, I get completely lost and only manage to
get out from the labyrinth of deadly interconnecting links by closing my
web browser. Of course, if I had maintenance I might be able to find a
direct route there, but for the lowly XSI user it's almost as though the
website has been built to confuse and bewilder customers like a shopping
mall. I can never find what I'm looking for.
-Joel
Sandy Sutherland wrote:
> Just to add - we use all Geforce cards here - various ones, and they all
> work fine - not to say we don't have crashes, but no more than anyone else
> here using other software!! I would strongly suspect your drivers!!
>
> I have found the Drivers from www.guru3d.com to be very good - I currently
> have 66.93 installed all round!
>
> S.
>
> -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -----
> Sandy Sutherland Digital Doodeller - TD
> The Refinery (Cape) http://www.refinery.co.za
> mailto:sandy@(protected)
> (P) (+27 21) 480 3132 (F) (+27 21) 480 3101
> -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -----
>
> -- -- Original Message -- --
> From: "Joel Blackwell" <joel@(protected)>
> To: <XSI@(protected)>
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Getting frustrated with bugs...
>
>
>
>>Thanks for the additional replies, guys. One of the problems seems to
>>be- if I do exactly what I'm supposed to, XSI works okay. If I deviate,
>>even slightly, everything goes awry. It's a shame because I spend hours
>>in the manuals trying to work out if I've done something wrong, when
>>most of the time that weird thing I saw moments before really was a
>>'weird thing' after all.
>>
>>When I said most guys have money to throw around, I was more referring
>>to the ability to get the right hardware for the job. Unfortunately,
>>I'll have to build a new rig for XSI, because I need my gamers card so I
>>can stay compatabile with the other programs I have related to game
>>development. It's a shame, but I guess that's the way the cookie
>>crumbles, as they say.
>>
>>Hopefully in the future XSI's small quirks will be ironed out so I can
>>stop cowering in a corner, waiting for my computer to explode after
>>connecting a shader the way I'm not supposed to, or something.
>>
>>-Joel
>>
>>
>>kim aldis wrote:
>>
>>>There's a few things worth mentioning here:
>>>
>>>First, to re-iterate what has already been said here, that Xsi at 4.2 is
>>>extremely stable and I rarely see it crash these days. One issue only
>
> these
>
>>>past 4 weeks and that I nailed down to a dodgy .mov file in the roto
>
> view.
>
>>>Changed the roto file and all was dandy.
>>>
>>>Remember that graphics card issues are also related to any kind of
>
> picking
>
>>>so if you're having problems connecting RT nodes then this is likely a
>
> card
>
>>>issue. That said, I used the Go FX 5600 for quite some time without any
>>>major issues. I appreciate this isn't the same card but generally Nvidia
>
> is
>
>>>seen as good for xsi. Generally speaking, though, the best bet is to
>
> always
>
>>>go latest drivers and to get them from Nvidia.
>>>
>>>Avoid recovering from crashed scenes. There's no guarantee that the
>
> saved
>
>>>scene is reliable and given the state of Xsi at the point of save it's
>>>highly likely to have some form of corruption. Many people here have
>>>reported instability issues with scenes that have been recovered. Far
>
> better
>
>>>to adopt a policy of regular saving.
>>>
>>>
>>>Remember that although Xsi is powerful and gives you a great deal of
>
> control
>
>>>over your work, that control comes with the penalty of complexity which
>
> in
>
>>>turn gives you greater scope for error.
>>>
>>>
>>>And finally, never underestimate the facility that sticky fingers and
>>>unfamiliarity have for making a mess of things without your realising
>
> it.
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>kim@(protected)
>>>kim@(protected)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-- --Original Message-- --
>>>>From: owner-xsi@(protected)
>>>>[mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)] On Behalf Of Joel Blackwell
>>>>Sent: 03 June 2005 13:59
>>>>To: XSI@(protected)
>>>>Subject: Re: Getting frustrated with bugs...
>>>>
>>>>Thanks to all who've posted responces so far... I appreciate
>>>>it! It was a little daft of me not to post some of the
>>>>problems I'm having, so I'll do so now.
>>>>
>>>>Firstly, I'm running a GeforceFX 5600 (and have run with a
>>>>number of different drivers.. currently the latest) I've had
>>>>no major issues, graphics wise.
>>>>
>>>>Now for some problems: Simple things, like creating two
>>>>layers for a simple shader, and then attaching a texture to
>>>>each. Then, half of the time I can't disconnect the textures
>>>>at all from the layers (mainly a problem for the tree view)
>>>>and the other half of the time, they do disconnect, but not
>>>>visually, so I can't tell what's connected to what until I
>>>>hit refresh.
>>>>
>>>>Then (usually while trying to disconnect the textures from the first
>>>>problem) If I hit right mouse a few too many times in the
>>>>tree view, XSI crashes. Even though it tells me it
>>>>successfully saves, when I load XSI again and try to recover
>>>>the scene, it tells me the scene is the wrong version
>>>>(version 420 or something along those lines) and then
>>>>proceeds to tell me it requires version 420. It then crashes again.
>>>>
>>>>Here's one from XSIbase...
>>>>
>>>>I loaded in an X format model with textures (not made by
>>>>myself) and found it to have a red tint to it. I adjusted
>>>>the ambient lighting for the materials to grey, and wondered
>>>>why, even though the textures were grey in colour, the model
>>>>still retained the red tint in the 3D view.
>>>>However, the model rendered exactly as I thought it should
>>>>look (that is, with grey ambience). Long story short- after
>>>>a lot of experimentation, I found the problem to be that the
>>>>model's texture was connected to the diffuse port of the
>>>>phong shader. I'd adjusted the phong's ambience from red to
>>>>grey, but XSI didn't change it fully. If I disconnected the
>>>>texture and reconnected it again, the ambience was set back
>>>>to red (again) and when I then changed it to grey, it fixed
>>>>the problem.
>>>>
>>>>Very strange, and for those wondering, I checked the scene ambience.
>>>>Really odd things like this keep popping up the more I work
>>>>in the render tree... weird anomalies that keep me busy for
>>>>hours, rummaging through the manual, trying to find out why
>>>>it's happening.
>>>>
>>>>It's things like those that I encounter all over the place
>>>>and make me wonder if anyone bothered to test XSI at all
>>>>before releasing it. I'm sure that I'm overreacting somewhat
>>>>at the moment... and you guys are right, they're not the
>>>>biggest problems in the world. But, it'd be nice to have
>>>>someone say, "Hey, we're going to get those things fixed, so
>>>>people don't start comparing XSI to Truespace 3!"
>>>>
>>>>-Joel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Morten Bartholdy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Joel I do remember you ;) and I'm not sure my answer will
>>>>
>>>>be of much
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>help, but here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>>I use XSI on lots of different hardware combinations
>>>>
>>>>including a few
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>consumer gfxcards and though I do run in to the occasional bug or
>>>>>crash,
>>>>>V4.2 appears very stable for my use, which is any flavor of
>>>>
>>>>3D & VFX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>for commercials and feature film alike. So I get around in
>>>>
>>>>the app and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I can't recognize your problems. I know this does not help
>>>>
>>>>you much,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>but it leads me to think you are either suffering from a very
>>>>>incompatible gfxcard (you don't say which one), or bad
>>>>
>>>>hardware - perhaps memory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You say it happens when working with shaders, so what
>>>>
>>>>exactly is it you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Do you tweak parameters on existing ones or write your own?
>>>>
>>>>Granted -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>tweaking shaders with the renderregion active causes hangups or
>>>>>crashes now and then, but although annoying, nothing I would call
>>>>>serious flaws. The only times I have experienced repeated
>>>>
>>>>crashes or
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the like, was when I was beating what ought to be a dead horse, and
>>>>>was too tired to think of reasonable workarounds or even a better
>>>>>solution. In my experience (having taught 3D at several
>>>>
>>>>schools in my
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>country) those that keep running into trouble with the app
>>>>
>>>>often keep
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>using it in ways that may provoke certain weaknesses in the
>>>>
>>>>sw. I am
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>not saying that is what you do - I am only trying to give
>>>>
>>>>you pointers regarding how to work on fixing your specific problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>When you say no-one seems to care about your problems, bear in mind
>>>>>that if it is a gfxcard issue, it could be fixed for an amount
>>>>>equalling a few hours work for many professionals on this,
>>>>
>>>>and though
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I understand your pain, and appreciate that you may not be in a
>>>>>position to aquire a certified card, you may need to
>>>>
>>>>understand why others might not be bothered.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You might get more help from some of all the good guys
>>>>
>>>>residing here
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>if you provide a bit more specific info about the nature of your
>>>>>predicament. I am no hardware expert, but I have used XSI
>>>>
>>>>on several
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>consumer cards including even an old GeForce 2 GTS, and apart from
>>>>>performance and OGL accuracy they are not much different from
>>>>>Wildcats, Fire or nVidia FX cards for average daily use, so
>>>>
>>>>I am curious to know which card you are using.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Best regards
>>>>>
>>>>>Morten Bartholdy
>>>>>3D & VFX Artist
>>>>>Denmark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-- -- Original Message -- --
>>>>>From: "Joel Blackwell" <joel@(protected)>
>>>>>To: <XSI@(protected)>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:39 PM
>>>>>Subject: Getting frustrated with bugs...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm considering selling XSI, mainly because I'm finding it hard to
>>>>>>learn the program, due to the fact I run into a bug every
>>>>
>>>>few minutes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>when working with shaders. Every time I post about the
>>>>
>>>>problems (on a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>forum), someone pipes up and tells me something like, "You
>>>>
>>>>must have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>missed something." or, "The problem must be with your
>>>>
>>>>graphics card."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps either one of those could be true, since I'm not using a
>>>>>>certified card, and I'm no XSI know-it-all. However, no
>>>>
>>>>one seems to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>care if the problem could actually be worth looking to. My
>>>>
>>>>posts just
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>disappear into nothingness, never to be seen again. Seemingly, my
>>>>>>only solution I have is- risk paying some money for a
>>>>
>>>>certified card
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>(which is beyond my price range at the moment) that may not fix the
>>>>>>problems I've been seeing anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is obviously a great community for people who work in a
>>>>>>professional environment, and have money to throw around everywhere
>>>>>>for proper support and the hardware to suit a professional
>>>>
>>>>pipeline.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>But, for people like myself, XSI seems more and more the poorer
>>>>>>program to go with. Softimage may be doing everything they can to
>>>>>>increase their userbase, but the program just isn't
>>>>
>>>>designed for the average person...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>and right now, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I mean,
>>>>
>>>>why develop
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>a program for certified (non-gamer) cards, and then aim the
>>>>
>>>>program at
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>mod makers for games? It just doesn't make any sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That aside, does anyone have some advice for me? Last time
>>>>
>>>>I posted
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>on this mailing list everyone tried to kill me as the marauding
>>>>>>invader from the land of Truespace (if anyone remembers
>>>>
>>>>that fiasco).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>This time, I'm hopeful that won't happen again, and someone
>>>>
>>>>will help
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>me get this program working as it should. Or, the
>>>>
>>>>Softimage crew will
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>actually note down some bugs to be fixed, so I don't have
>>>>
>>>>to sell XSI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>and move onto something that works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-Joel
>>>>>>---
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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