 | | | Cloth | Cloth 2005-04-05 - By kim aldis
Back
Hey Lu, surf on!
Yeah, it's pretty fast. A while back I was working alongside someone who
started a project using Maya cloth but moved over to Syflex because he found
Maya just too slow. That's not to say one is better than the other but you
just can't afford to wait forever to see what you've done.
The other reason for the cage is again, speed. The cage is going to have a
good deal fewer points on it so your dev cycle will be faster. You can also
mess with point counts and stuff on the deformed object without messing with
the sim.
__ __
From: owner-xsi@(protected) [mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)] On Behalf Of
Lu
Sent: 05 April 2005 05:54
To: XSI@(protected)
Subject: Re: Cloth
(Judge Dredd voice) You have been judged!
How's it going Kim? I see you're still pretty prolific on the list.
John,
I'm actually playing with Syflex quite often these days and it seems to work
great with not a lot of tweaking. Once you get used to dialing the right
internal and external envelopes to solve interpenetration issues, then it's
all peachy.
If you're planning to make stuff like jackets, it might be better to just
create a sim on clusters like midway down the back of the jacket and then
weight the rest to the rig. Unless you planned for the character to jump
off a building, take off the jacket and attempt to use it as a parachute,
then that will work for the most part.
One nice trick Brad Gabe showed me was using a cage deformer that had the
simulation on it, and then use that to drive an object with some thickness
to it. It kept everything nice and neat and prevented a double-sided mesh
from "balooning" when applying forces to it. All in all Syflex is nice and
fast in terms of getting decent results. It's a ton of fun to play with as
long as you get geometry that was designed with cloth in mind.
peace,
Lu
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: kim aldis <mailto:kim@(protected)>
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Cloth
Syflex is way quicker than Maya cloth.
__ __
From: owner-xsi@(protected) [mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)] On Behalf Of
john clark
Sent: 03 April 2005 01:16
To: XSI@(protected)
Subject: Re: Cloth
Hi Adam
I thought Syflex was supposed to be quick(er) than Maya cloth. But then I
don't suppose any cloth sim is gonna be that fast. When you say low high
system do you mean deforming the high res mesh with the low res simulation?
cheers john
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: Adam Sale <mailto:adamsale@(protected)>
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Cloth
I've done clothing successfully with Syflex, but not without the use of a
low - hi system where I end up having to Cage deform the hi to the low
system.. The Syflex works well enough, for me though its more a matter of
excruciating sim times thats forced me to go the low hi route..
High Res stuff has wound up looking pretty good, just wish I had more
processing power..
I'll admit though, that with High or Low res cloth systems, I've always
wound up having to also layer on some corrective shape animation to really
sell the effect, especially in shots where characters move quickly from one
area / pose to another.
Separate cloth passes make the job a lot easier as well
Adam
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: john clark <mailto:john.clark23@(protected)>
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Cloth
I'm only going from what I saw in the documentary which was clearly Maya
cloth. Obviously it may be that it was Maya sitting on top of some of their
own stuff. Like you say it may be that it was just for assembly. Whatever it
was I'm still quite interested to know whether people have attempted to make
clothes with syflex and how they got on.
john
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: Brad <mailto:xsibrad@(protected)> Friedman
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cloth
everything I've read says they may have used maya for some clothing assembly
but the actual cloth sim was proprietary.
note:
http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles
<http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsec
tion=Display&ARTICLE_ID=215639> &Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=215639
which has a short explanation.
My recollection is that pixar was doing their own cloth sim as far back as
"Geri's Game".
-brad
Steven Caron wrote:
they didn't use a proprietary cloth solution?
On Apr 2, 2005 5:08 AM, john clark <mailto:john.clark23@(protected)>
<john.clark23@(protected)> wrote:
Hi all
I've never used any cloth simulation stuff but yesterday I watched 'The
making of the incredibles' and noticed that they used Maya's cloth for the
clothes which surprised me 'cos I'd always assumed that it was incredibly
slow, but it got me wondering about making clothes. All entirely academic
since I work in games with Maya, and cloth simulations are not very
real-time! But I wondered what syflex was like and whether you could make
shirts and jackets with it easily. Has anyone used it for that sort of
stuff? What's it like?
cheers
John
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hey Lu, surf on!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Yeah, it's pretty fast. A while back I was working
alongside someone who started a project using Maya cloth but moved over to
Syflex because he found Maya just too slow. That's not to say one is better
than
the other but you just can't afford to wait forever to see what you've
done.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The other reason for the cage is again, speed. The cage is
going to have a good deal fewer points on it so your dev cycle will be
faster. You can also mess with point counts and stuff on the deformed object
without messing with the sim.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=281150308-05042005></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-xsi@(protected)
[mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Lu<BR><B>Sent:</B> 05
April 2005 05:54<BR><B>To:</B> XSI@(protected)<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Cloth<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(Judge Dredd voice) You have been
judged!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How's it going Kim? I see you're still
pretty prolific on the list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm actually playing with Syflex quite often
these days and it seems to work great with not a lot of tweaking. Once
you get used to dialing the right internal and external envelopes to solve
interpenetration issues, then it's all peachy. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you're planning to make stuff like jackets,
it
might be better to just create a sim on clusters like midway down the back of
the jacket and then weight the rest to the rig. Unless you planned for
the character to jump off a building, take off the jacket and attempt to use
it as a parachute, then that will work for the most part. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One nice trick Brad Gabe showed me was using a
cage deformer that had the simulation on it, and then use that to drive an
object with some thickness to it. It kept everything nice and neat and
prevented a double-sided mesh from "balooning" when applying forces to
it. All in all Syflex is nice and fast in terms of getting decent
results. It's a ton of fun to play with as long as you get geometry
that
was designed with cloth in mind.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lu</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:<
/B>
<A title=kim@(protected) href="mailto:kim@(protected)">kim aldis</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:29
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=859445407-03042005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Syflex is way quicker than Maya
cloth.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)">owner-xsi@(protected)</A>
[mailto:owner-xsi@(protected)] <B>On Behalf Of </B>john
clark<BR><B>Sent:</B> 03 April 2005 01:16<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Cloth<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Adam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I thought Syflex was supposed to be quick(er
)
than Maya cloth. But then I don't suppose any cloth sim is gonna be that
fast. When you say low high system do you mean deforming the high res
mesh
with the low res simulation?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>cheers john</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER
-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B
>From:</B>
<A title=adamsale@(protected) href="mailto:adamsale@(protected)">Adam Sale</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 02, 2005 9
:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've done clothing successfully with
Syflex, but not without the use of a low - hi system where I end up
having to Cage deform the hi to the low system.. The Syflex works well
enough, for me though its more a matter of excruciating sim times thats
forced me to go the low hi route..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>High Res stuff has wound up looking pretty
good, just wish I had more processing power..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'll admit though, that with High or Low
res cloth systems, I've always wound up having to also layer on some
corrective shape animation to really sell the effect, especially
in shots where characters move quickly from one area / pose
to
another. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Separate cloth passes make the job a
lot easier as well</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Adam</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER
-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B
>From:</B>
<A title=john.clark23@(protected)
href="mailto:john.clark23@(protected)">john clark</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 02, 2005
11:07 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm only going from what I saw in the
documentary which was clearly Maya cloth. Obviously it may be that it
was Maya sitting on top of some of their own stuff. Like you say it
may be that it was just for assembly. Whatever it was I'm still quite
interested to know whether people have attempted to make clothes with
syflex and how they got on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>john</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B
>From:</B>
<A title=xsibrad@(protected) href="mailto:xsibrad@(protected)">Brad
Friedman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 02, 2005
7:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>everything I've read says they may have used maya
for
some clothing assembly but the actual cloth sim was
proprietary.<BR><BR>note:<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section
=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=215639">http://cgw.pennnet.com
/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&
;ARTICLE_ID=215639</A><BR><BR>which
has a short explanation.<BR><BR>My recollection is that pixar was
doing their own cloth sim as far back as "Geri's
Game".<BR><BR>-brad<BR><BR>Steven Caron wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid3167b41105040209294f1ccb25@(protected)
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">they didn't use a proprietary cloth
solution?
On Apr 2, 2005 5:08 AM, john clark <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto
:john.clark23@(protected)"><john.clark23@(protected)></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">
Hi all
I've never used any cloth simulation stuff but yesterday I watched 'The
making of the incredibles' and noticed that they used Maya's cloth for the
clothes which surprised me 'cos I'd always assumed that it was incredibly
slow, but it got me wondering about making clothes. All entirely academic
since I work in games with Maya, and cloth simulations are not very
real-time! But I wondered what syflex was like and whether you could make
shirts and jackets with it easily. Has anyone used it for that sort of
stuff? What's it like?
cheers
John
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->---
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