 | | | Cloth | Cloth 2005-04-02 - By john clark
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Hi Brad
Very interesting and thanks for the link to the addon. I'm making some
characters at the mo' and have for the moment been modelling the cloth
deformations long hand with the intention of doing precisely what you say
(linking shapes to orientations ) largely because I imagine that even the new
and improved RT cloth solutions would be a bit rubbish (clunky) for anything
other than capes or curtains etc. Anyway, its surprised me how effective a few
shapes are for cloth on trousers, shirts, jackets etc. The problem is that they
're time consuming to model. A process for generating the shapes more quickly is
precisely what I'm trying to put together. Glad to hear that others are doing
similar things. Always good to be part of the zeitgeist!-)
cheers
John
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: Brad Friedman
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Cloth
making the cloth is really easy in syflex. The hard part is getting it to
sit in a stable manner on your character. Its tough to get it to move without
getting caught in seams, or generally flaking out. Pins and such are usually
the way to go. Its possible and it works with the 2.x syflex for XSI. But if
the featureset for 3.0 is what its supposed to be, it should be a lot easier
now than it was previously. Actually... even the improvements in the pin from
XSI 4.0 to 4.2 were enough to make things easier.
However, if you are looking for a solution thats going to let you arbitrarily
cloth up your characters for general purpose long form animation work, that may
be unrealistic to expect of stock syflex or maya cloth at this point. Its not
that they couldn't do the simulation. Its just that they generate so much
simulation work... the budget for the cloth sim department would need to be
rather large. My recollection is that PDI relies heavily on their finishing
department to deform simulation flubs out of their cloth simulations by hand.
This is part of their proprietary pipeline. But thats what they kinda had to
do to make it work for their needs.
The pixar solution is interesting. Hearing about it reminds me of something
somebody was doing with a script I wrote.
This is the addon:
http://xsi.fie.us/orientationDrivenShapes/
Its just a reworking of linking shapes to orientations. nothing special.
What was kind of cool was a guy on XSIBase who's alias is "milesc". He was
playing around with it and was baking out shapes from a cloth sim at different
poses and using my addon to drive the shapes. The way the article talks about
how pixar is doing their thing sounds different... much more sophisticated...
but I was reminded of what milesc was doing none the less.
If I were to take on a project with fully clothed characters at this point I
'd put some R&D time into something similar to what milesc was doing. I figure
if it works, it can probably take care of the bulk of the clothing shots,
leaving just the ones that really have to be simulated, for a full simulation.
just my 2 cents plus a few ramblings
-brad
john clark wrote:
I'm only going from what I saw in the documentary which was clearly Maya
cloth. Obviously it may be that it was Maya sitting on top of some of their own
stuff. Like you say it may be that it was just for assembly. Whatever it was I
'm still quite interested to know whether people have attempted to make clothes
with syflex and how they got on.
john
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: Brad Friedman
To: XSI@(protected)
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cloth
everything I've read says they may have used maya for some clothing
assembly but the actual cloth sim was proprietary.
note:
http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles
&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=215639
which has a short explanation.
My recollection is that pixar was doing their own cloth sim as far back
as "Geri's Game".
-brad
Steven Caron wrote:
they didn't use a proprietary cloth solution?
On Apr 2, 2005 5:08 AM, john clark <john.clark23@(protected)> wrote:
Hi all
I've never used any cloth simulation stuff but yesterday I watched 'The
making of the incredibles' and noticed that they used Maya's cloth for the
clothes which surprised me 'cos I'd always assumed that it was incredibly
slow, but it got me wondering about making clothes. All entirely academic
since I work in games with Maya, and cloth simulations are not very
real-time! But I wondered what syflex was like and whether you could make
shirts and jackets with it easily. Has anyone used it for that sort of
stuff? What's it like?
cheers
John
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Brad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Very interesting and thanks for the link to the
addon. I'm making some characters at the mo' and have for the moment been
modelling the cloth deformations long hand with the intention of doing
precisely
what you say (linking shapes to orientations ) largely because I
imagine that even the new and improved RT cloth solutions would
be a bit rubbish (clunky) for anything other than capes or curtains
etc. Anyway, its surprised me how effective a few shapes are for cloth on
trousers, shirts, jackets etc. The problem is that they're time
consuming to model. A process for generating the shapes more quickly is
precisely what I'm trying to put together. Glad to hear that others are doing
similar things. Always good to be part of the zeitgeist!-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=xsibrad@(protected) href="mailto:xsibrad@(protected)">Brad Friedman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:44
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>making the cloth is really easy in syflex. The hard part
is getting it to sit in a stable manner on your character. Its tough to
get it to move without getting caught in seams, or generally flaking
out. Pins and such are usually the way to go. Its possible and it
works with the 2.x syflex for XSI. But if the featureset for 3.0 is
what
its supposed to be, it should be a lot easier now than it was
previously. Actually... even the improvements in the pin from XSI 4.0
to
4.2 were enough to make things easier.<BR><BR>However, if you are looking for
a solution thats going to let you arbitrarily cloth up your characters for
general purpose long form animation work, that may be unrealistic to expect
of
stock syflex or maya cloth at this point. Its not that they couldn't do
the simulation. Its just that they generate so much simulation work...
the budget for the cloth sim department would need to be rather large.
My recollection is that PDI relies heavily on their finishing department to
deform simulation flubs out of their cloth simulations by hand. This is
part of their proprietary pipeline. But thats what they kinda had to do
to make it work for their needs.<BR><BR>The pixar solution is
interesting. Hearing about it reminds me of something somebody was
doing
with a script I wrote.<BR><BR>This is the addon:<BR><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://xsi.fie.us/orientationDrivenShapes/">http://xsi.fie.us
/orientationDrivenShapes/</A><BR><BR>Its
just a reworking of linking shapes to orientations. nothing
special. What was kind of cool was a guy on XSIBase who's alias is
"milesc". He was playing around with it and was baking out shapes from
a
cloth sim at different poses and using my addon to drive the shapes.
The
way the article talks about how pixar is doing their thing sounds different..
.
much more sophisticated... but I was reminded of what milesc was doing none
the less.<BR><BR>If I were to take on a project with fully clothed characters
at this point I'd put some R&D time into something similar to what milesc
was doing. I figure if it works, it can probably take care of the bulk
of the clothing shots, leaving just the ones that really have to be simulated
,
for a full simulation.<BR><BR>just my 2 cents plus a few
ramblings<BR><BR>-brad<BR><BR>john clark wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid005d01c537b7$2dbe8290$ca970052@(protected) type="cite">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm only going from what I saw in the
documentary which was clearly Maya cloth. Obviously it may be that it was
Maya sitting on top of some of their own stuff. Like you say it may be that
it was just for assembly. Whatever it was I'm still quite interested to
know
whether people have attempted to make clothes with syflex and how they got
on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>john</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>-- -- Original Message -- -- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT
: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; moz
-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline
-policy: initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B>
<A title=xsibrad@(protected) href="mailto:xsibrad@(protected)">Brad Friedman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B
>To:</B>
<A title=XSI@(protected)
href="mailto:XSI@(protected)">XSI@(protected)</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B
>Sent:</B>
Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B
>Subject:</B>
Re: Cloth</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>everything I've read says they may have used maya for some
clothing assembly but the actual cloth sim was
proprietary.<BR><BR>note:<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section
=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=215639">http://cgw.pennnet.com
/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&
;ARTICLE_ID=215639</A><BR><BR>which
has a short explanation.<BR><BR>My recollection is that pixar was doing
their own cloth sim as far back as "Geri's
Game".<BR><BR>-brad<BR><BR>Steven Caron wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid3167b41105040209294f1ccb25@(protected) type="cite"
><PRE wrap="">they didn't use a proprietary cloth solution?
On Apr 2, 2005 5:08 AM, john clark <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto
:john.clark23@(protected)"><john.clark23@(protected)></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">
Hi all
I've never used any cloth simulation stuff but yesterday I watched 'The
making of the incredibles' and noticed that they used Maya's cloth for the
clothes which surprised me 'cos I'd always assumed that it was incredibly
slow, but it got me wondering about making clothes. All entirely academic
since I work in games with Maya, and cloth simulations are not very
real-time! But I wondered what syflex was like and whether you could make
shirts and jackets with it easily. Has anyone used it for that sort of
stuff? What's it like?
cheers
John
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->---
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