 | | | Dir3d-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15 | Dir3d-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15 2004-01-10 - By dir3d-l-request@(protected)
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Today's Topics:
1. Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!! (Jan Bender)
2. Re: Showing video as texture - followup (Paul Fortier)
3. Re: Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!! (noisecrime)
4. Torque URL? (Ken Hubbell)
5. Torque Game Engine (fraser@(protected))
6. Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!! (Jan Bender)
-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:54:08 +0100 (MET)
From: "Jan Bender" <Janosch71@(protected)>
Subject: [Dir3d-l] Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!!
To: "dir3d-l@(protected)" <dir3d-l@(protected)>
Message-ID: <17961.1073735648@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859 (See http://iso-8859.ora-code.com)-1"
Hello Mailing-List,
I read about the new highlights of the new MX 2004 version yesterday. There
are surely good improvements like crossplatform publishing and speeding up
flash integration, but I`m very sad, that there seemed to be no improvements of
the 3D-Engine. I think that the engine in combination with online puplishing
of directorprojects is one of the greatest advantages of director. The
3D-engine and Imaging Lingo are two important aspects for a developer to choose
director, for example compared with the features of Flash. This is the field
where director should not gamble away his lead. What are the planes of the
future of the 3D-engine ???? In your post I found improvements for anti-aliasing
and modelsUnderLoc, but what about the performance ???
Im working with hugh mesches generated dynamicly as terrain-models with
lingo, have you increase the performance of the player to make the movement of
the models more fluent? A big problem in my project is the sds-modifier, may be
a great thing, but I can�t activate it for meshes with many vertices, you
can`t activate it with a dynamic mesh when turning over a fixed number of
vertices, but with increasing computing power, I think more are possible. Can`t
they simply unlock this feature ? Are there any further changes or future plans
in that direction ??
Greetings
M. Oster
(German Multimedia-Developer)
--
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More +++
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-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:03:43 -0500
From: Paul Fortier <pf@(protected)>
Subject: Re: [Dir3d-l] Showing video as texture - followup
To: dir3d-l@(protected)
Message-ID: <3FFFF82F.5030307@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859 (See http://ISO-8859.ora-code.com)-1; format=flowed
Roman,
Please let us know your results regarding comparing performance of both
methods (video behind the DTS sprite and video in a MIAW).
I for one would be interested.
Thanks.
Paul
Roman Bl�th wrote:
> Dear wizards,
>
>
> concerning the subject above, you helped me a lot! It works both ways,
> putting the video sprite behind the DTS 3D sprite and showing the
> video in a MIAW. I have to compare the performances of both methods,
> but both are much better than working with Real Video.
>
> Thank you guys, you quite made my day!
>
>
> Best regards,
> roman bl�th.
>
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>
-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:11:38 -0000
From: "noisecrime" <noise@(protected)>
Subject: Re: [Dir3d-l] Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!!
To: <dir3d-l@(protected)>
Message-ID: <000d01c3d77b$485b5440$0100a8c0@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859 (See http://iso-8859.ora-code.com)-1"
-- -- Original Message -- --
From: "Jan Bender" <Janosch71@(protected)>
>A big problem in my project is the sds-modifier, may be
> a great thing, but I can�t activate it for meshes with many vertices, you
> can`t activate it with a dynamic mesh when turning over a fixed number of
> vertices
SDS is good at what it does, but as you've discovered it sadly requires a
fair amount of cpu to do its job.
I've found just using a setting of 1 can often work well, but anything above
that will normally bog down the machine.
I'm pretty sure you can apply it to a dynamic mesh. Not 100% on stuff like
boneplayer animation, but definately on meshes you create via lingo. One
important aspect to keep in mind is that the order of modifiers is
important. So don't apply SDS then meshdeform, but do it the other way
around.
Noisecrime 2004
-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:14:53 -0500
From: "Ken Hubbell" <ken.hubbell@(protected)>
Subject: [Dir3d-l] Torque URL?
To: <dir3d-l@(protected)>
Message-ID:
<COEAJLKHEIPDGIKLKDAEAEKMCJAA.ken.hubbell@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859 (See http://iso-8859.ora-code.com)-1"
Do you have a URL for the torque engine?
Ken
-- --Original Message-- --
From: dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)
[mailto:dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)]On Behalf Of
webmaster@(protected)
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:41 PM
To: dir3d-l@(protected)
Subject: RE: [Dir3d-l] vertex shading (was: Director and the masses)
OK, last post about this and then I'm done...I'm sorry if this is too much
OT
for this list....
the reason I brought up the Torque engine is because it has EVERY
possibility
you could conceive of in a stand alone PC game engine, and it's only $100 ,
which is cheaper than most of the tools mentioned so far.
It's beyond a bargain...they're practically making it a give-away. The
biggest
issue is the steep learning curve. But the demo will make your jaw drop in
terms of how robust that thing is.
Quoting "webmaster@(protected)" <webmaster@(protected)>:
> Although to keep it in perspective, there are game creation engines that
cost
>
> tens of thousands of dollars. If you read Game Developer magazine and
look
> at
> the prices companies pay for FULL BLOWN game engines....its astounding.
>
> Compared to the tens of thousands you'd pay in a traditional environment
for
>
> game development, BOTH Virtools and Director are bargains, actually.
>
> I know that not everyone on this list developes games, but I thought the
> perspective is still worth noting.
>
> By the way....if any of you are wanting a kick a** engine, that Torque
game
> engine is absolutely amazing. It's all heavy C++ coding with a steeper
than
> average learning curve, but the engine is one of the best made, matching
the
>
> integrety of U2 or Quake. There is a demo at Garage Games. You need a
decent
>
> gfx card to view the demo, though.
>
>
>
>
> Quoting "webmaster@(protected)" <webmaster@(protected)>:
>
> > Yes. Virtools can publish to XBOX --they are also Microsoft's official
XBOX
>
> > prototyping tool, and they also cater to very high profile clients. They
> seem
> >
> > to have the attitude that this justifies their high price...maybe it
does,
> > but
> > it locks a lot of developers out. I work at a university and also teach
and
>
> > can qualify for educational version but this is not everyone.
> >
> > but yeah, Virtools is way too expensive. Even their users complain about
> > this.
> > And apparently updates are pricey too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Ken Hubbell <ken.hubbell@(protected)>:
> >
> > > Plus the cost for VirTools is outrageous compared to Director. $1000
> per
> > > title for less than 100 users, and some undefined amount for more than
> 100
> > > plus the initial cost of the dev tool. Multi-user is even more.
> Physics
> > is
> > > again more. Wow. Director is a bargain!
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > -- --Original Message-- --
> > > From: dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)
> > > [mailto:dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)]On Behalf Of
> > > webmaster@(protected)
> > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:13 PM
> > > To: dir3d-l@(protected)
> > > Subject: RE: [Dir3d-l] vertex shading (was: Director and the masses)
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Ken Hubbell <ken.hubbell@(protected)>:
> > >
> > > > I see a cloth behavior, but do not see the ability to generate
meshes
> on
> > > the
> > > > fly, and then manipulate each individual vertex.
> > >
> > > Ahh...I see what you're getting at. Yeah Director is good for that.
> Blitz
> > > also
> > > does it extremely well. In my last Blitz game I created two terrains
> with
> > > code
> > > and the player gets to travel to them and dig for treasures. This is a
> lot
> > > of
> > > fun to do and very neccessary for certain projects. Blitz has a few
very
> > > useful commands like TFormPoint and VertexCoords that can be used to
> > create
> > > very accurate mesh deformations as a result of collisions with meshes,
> or
> > > for
> > > whatever reason.
> > >
> > >
> > > Virtools has ability to manipulate individual vertices but in terms of
> > mesh
> > > CREATION on the fly, I think you have to use their scripting language
> > (VSL)
> > > to
> > > do that.
> > >
> > > Quoting Ken Hubbell <ken.hubbell@(protected)>:
> > >
> > > > I see a cloth behavior, but do not see the ability to generate
meshes
> on
> > > the
> > > > fly, and then manipulate each individual vertex.
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > -- --Original Message-- --
> > > > From: dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)
> > > > [mailto:dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)]On Behalf Of
> > > > webmaster@(protected)
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:24 PM
> > > > To: dir3d-l@(protected)
> > > > Subject: [Dir3d-l] vertex shading (was: Director and the masses)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually , I just checked...version 3.0 (coming out in 14 days)
> supports
> > > > vertex
> > > > shading also in addition to mesh manip.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.virtools.com/solutions/products/virtools_dev_new3_0.asp
> > > >
> > > > various demos are here:
> > > > http://www.virtools.com/applications/index_technology.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Ken Hubbell <ken.hubbell@(protected)>:
> > > >
> > > > > In addition, Shockwave3D is one of the ONLY web based formats that
> > > > supports
> > > > > dynamic mesh manipulation of vertices and vertex shading. Its
> support
> > > for
> > > > > image processing is also fantastic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken
> > > > >
> > > > > -- --Original Message-- --
> > > > > From: dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)
> > > > > [mailto:dir3d-l-bounces@(protected)]On Behalf Of
> > > > > webmaster@(protected)
> > > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 1:54 PM
> > > > > To: dir3d-l@(protected)
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Dir3d-l] Director and the masses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree. I like dealing with .w3d format. Other engines often have
> > their
> > > > own
> > > > > proprietary formats but getting bones animation is often more than
> > just
> > > a
> > > > > notion, and its such a foundation of real time 3D.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was surprised Cinema4D had a .w3d exporter, because nothing else
> > about
> > > > > their
> > > > > app up until very very recently has seemed geared toward games or
> real
> > > > time
> > > > > 3D
> > > > > for that matter. Their .3ds export doesn't even include animation,
> > even
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > latest release.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Quoting Neto <neto@(protected)>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What I found the best feature in Director, surprisingly, is the
> W3D
> > > > > format.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find it far, far, far, superior than having to deal with .X /
> .MD3
> > > or
> > > > > > other super common formats. Every little engine I tried, that
only
> > > > > suppoert
> > > > > > .X files, gave me immensive headaches in trying to get goddarn
> bone
> > > > > > animations to export property. I find it ridiculous that such
> > > "standard"
> > > > > > format as .X has such horrible exporters for 3DS MAX and Maya.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- -- Original Message -- --
> > > > > > From: <webmaster@(protected)>
> > > > > > To: <dir3d-l@(protected)>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:03 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [Dir3d-l] Director and the masses
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > One thing I really appreciate about Director3D...(and IMHO
this
> > > should
> > > > > not
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > taken lightly), is the ubiquity of Shockwave3D. There are
many
> > > fancy
> > > > 3D
> > > > > > > engines out there now....over 50, but how many of them can run
> in
> > a
> > > > > > browser????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Only 3 that I know of with physics. But of those 3, how
many
> > have
> > > > > > software
> > > > > > > rendering ability so that they can be seen on any computer?
> Only
> > 2.
> > > > > But
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > those 2, only Director can synchronize several types of media
> > > > > > harmoniously, and
> > > > > > > can deal with and communicate with .swf files.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So for apps that are geared toward massive market penetration,
> > > > Director
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > still high on the list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really hope Intel can up the 3D aspect of Director, and
> > possibly,
> > > > down
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > road maybe we can have ability to code in a lower level
language
> > to
> > > > > power
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > 3D engine, like Java. (without out sourcing to an xtra)...with
> the
> > > > hopes
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > this will speed up the 3D in Director.
> > > > > > >
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:31:01 -0500
From: "fraser@(protected)"
<fraser@(protected)>
Subject: [Dir3d-l] Torque Game Engine
To: <dir3d-l@(protected)>
Message-ID: <E69773D0A84940B2BAEF2C59E11D9F2F.MAI@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
http://www.garagegames.com/
on the third row down
cheers
Fraser
-- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:57:35 +0100 (MET)
From: "Jan Bender" <Janosch71@(protected)>
Subject: [Dir3d-l] Questions about 3D-Improvements of MX 2004 !!!
To: dir3d-l@(protected)
Message-ID: <18558.1073753855@(protected)>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859 (See http://iso-8859.ora-code.com)-1"
Hello Noisecrime,
yes it`true sds is still working with dynamic meshes but only with a small
number of vertices.
I have tested it, in my mesh the sds-modifier is looked between 2500 and
3200 vertices. I don`t know
the exact number, because I stop testing, but with 2500 vertices the mesh
looks very good and moves fluently, so I think that is not really a question of
performance, but more a question of security lock from Intel or Macromedia,
to provide old Direct X 7 Graphiccards form crashing, but isn`t it time to
unlock now ???
Greetings
M. Oster
--
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End of Dir3d-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15
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